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Author Topic: 2000 psi  (Read 1201 times)

Offline mouz

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2000 psi
« on: May 04, 2011, 10:46:03 PM »
i just picked up a 2000 psi ball valve for $2...... yes, 2 US dollars. thats 1000 psi a dollar. sadly the pump will cost around $180....... and that i do not have. it will have to wait a while, but when i have the money, i think it will be .30, not .50, because i'll be able too get enough fps that i won't really need to worry about fpe. i could also make it a .70 barrel for shotgun loads and such
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 10:16:44 AM »
Nice find Mouz, where did you pick that up? Also from experience you will not be able to use iron or steel pipe to hold 2,000 psi.. What you will need is seamless 4130 or 4140 alloy steel TUBE not pipe.. The walls on said tube will need to be some where around 0.2 inches thick to contain that much pressure safely.. That's just a few things I've learned from lots of research and e-mailing some of the custom big bore makers.. you will also need NPT taps and dies for threading the tube so it will fit in your ball valve and for the filling end.. Yes I have built a gun with a similar setup using steel pipe but after doing the research and being told by people who have experience and know more about metal than I do I am thankful that I am alive and that my gun never exploded.. I am unsure why it never did explode becuz when I ran the real numbers I was at a very seriously dangerous level and I was very lucky.. if you have any questions about high pressure and tube and threads ect just ask and I'll try to answer them  ;D
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 10:24:51 AM »
Have a look at this it's a little technical but it's what you need to understand for high pressure steel.. hope it helps I know I learned a lot ;)

http://www.rathgibson.com/technical_info/pressure_data/burst_pressure.aspx
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 10:26:49 AM »
Also if Admin wants to move this thread from homemade ammo over to maybe home made airguns or general discussion im sure it would get more views
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Offline FighterAce

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 04:38:55 PM »
@Pellethuntr
Can you figure this out?
What wall thickness would I need for 27mm ID AlMgSi0.5(6060) tube to survive 50 bar with 3/4NPT threads on either end?
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 08:46:32 PM »
I'll figure it for you tomorrow Ace it's late here  ;D
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 08:50:16 PM »
Quote from: FighterAce on May 06, 2011, 04:38:55 PM
@Pellethuntr
Can you figure this out?
What wall thickness would I need for 27mm ID AlMgSi0.5(6060) tube to survive 50 bar with 3/4NPT threads on either end?

Is this seamless tube Ace? And also do you have an internet link to a place it can be purchased or are you getting it local? I have never heard of that alloy  ??? I can run the numbers but I need some more info on the alloy ect
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 09:04:57 AM by Pellethuntr »
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Offline FighterAce

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 05:00:23 AM »
Yes its seamless... I get it locally and the company only has a catalog with dimensions, no mechanical properties.

Just typing 6060 alloy into google I got this... http://www.powerofaluminium.com/html/alloys.htm  :D
 
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 08:53:55 AM »
Quote from: FighterAce on May 07, 2011, 05:00:23 AM
Yes its seamless... I get it locally and the company only has a catalog with dimensions, no mechanical properties.

Just typing 6060 alloy into google I got this... http://www.powerofaluminium.com/html/alloys.htm  :D
 


Thanks Ace that helps a lot.. I was gonna ask if it was alluminum.. Ok so I'll show you step by step of what I do to get the numbers you want.. First I will need to find the alloys yield strength.. Now since 6060 is a European alloy all the info I can find on it is metric numbers, so that means I need to convert MPA to PSI.. I found an online calculator for doing this here http://www.tiniusolsen.com/resource-center/mpa-psi.html the link Ace found says that there is two 6060 alloys one is T4 and the other T6.. The T6 is twice as strong as the T4 so Ace will need to know which allot he is buying, but I'll get numbers for both.. Ok so the converter says that 6060T4 has a yield strength of 10,152.639 PSI (Note that yield strength is for a solid bar not a tube, this is why we need the burst pressure calculator) And 6060T6 has a yield strength of 27,557.163 PSI.. Now I will go over to the burst pressure calculator.. We will skip over the OD and wall thickness for the time being and enter the yield strength in the slot that says "strength factor".. In the slot that asks for a safety factor I would recommend 3.. now back to the wall thickness becuz Ace wants it to be 3/4 pipe thread we also need to know how big of a tube 3/4 of an inch actually is.. So I went down and measured on the the 3/4 inch pipe threading die that I have and found that it needs to be about 1.05 inches OD and Ace is correct, that is very very close to 27mm.. Now we need to add a safe wall thickness I figured that a .20 in (about 6mm) wall would be safe and it is.. With a safety factor of 3 your theoretical working pressure with 6060T6 is 3500 psi or about 240 BAR.. And with the same OD and ID with alloy 6060T4 your "safe" working pressure is 1,300 psi or about 90BAR.. Hope that helps you a lot ACE if you need any clarification just ask  :) I can't honestly say that NPT threads are a good idea in aluminum tube because it is so soft  :-\ I have talked with an professional airgun builder and he said that he wasn't sure if he would even trust them in carbon steel, but I was also gonna use 3,000 psi.. but I still can't say that they would for sure be safe ACE.. also I wanted to clarify are you threading internally or externally Ace? The reason being is I ran the numbers assuming you were going to be threading on the outside and then I realized you you wanted it 27mm on the inside
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 09:07:54 AM by Pellethuntr »
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 08:59:10 AM »
Also sorry to hijack your thread Mouz.. What are your thoughts on your project so far?
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Offline FighterAce

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 09:04:23 AM »
Sounds good ;D It would be nice to have a few of those pressurized threaded tubes with fill valve on one side and check valve/quick disconnect on the other and swap them like mags  ;D
Thanks!
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2011, 09:15:25 AM »
Quote from: FighterAce on May 07, 2011, 09:04:23 AM
Sounds good ;D It would be nice to have a few of those pressurized threaded tubes with fill valve on one side and check valve/quick disconnect on the other and swap them like mags  ;D
Thanks!

Your welcome Ace.. Note I added a few more things to the end of that post for you to read.. can you draw a pic of what your plan for this build is?
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Offline FighterAce

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 09:26:26 AM »
I also realized the mess up with the dimensions... for internal threads the ID of the tube would have to be about 24mm not 27mm.

After I complete my sniper and hopefully gain in accuracy I'll start to work on reload and refill speed. Its just an idea for now, no real plans yet. But when I do reach the point where I can machine air chambers for myself I'll probably machine the valves and valve housings too so I won't be using store bought NPT threaded parts. What other thread can you recommend for high pressure?
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Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 12:55:10 PM »
From what I have been told fine threads are much better under pressure and o-ring should be used instead of tape
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Offline FighterAce

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Re: 2000 psi
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 02:27:30 PM »
Quote from: Pellethuntr on May 07, 2011, 12:55:10 PM
o-ring should be used instead of tape

I thoguht about that too but I think for the fast swap it would be better to have a quick disconnect... or have a very short thread that would seal and hold the air tank with just a couple of twists... but would that be strong enough?
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