Author Topic: ball valve power  (Read 1462 times)

Offline username1

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 10:00:44 PM »
While you are loading ammunition into your gun:
You know where your muzzle is pointing at.
You know what you are doing.
If someone steps in suddenly, you can move the muzzle fast away from him/ her (say your small child or even your wife :-)).
You can use a modified ram rod to increase the safety, keeping your hand away from the line of the bore (with muzzle-loaded gun. See the drawing).
You can point the muzzle down to the ground (with breech-loaded gun). While you are pumping, you can't rest the muzzle on the ground. If you point the muzzle up, your shed ceiling and roof... While in nature, where can you rest the gun on reliably?
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/username_016/SafetyMuzzleLoadingRamRod/SafetyRamRod.png
At last, I'm using a breech-loaded gun, which is safer :-). Furthermore, my gun has a safety valve. And I don't need a dangerous, home-made super-sonic gun to kill my lovely rats :-)

Offline boar

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 10:42:38 PM »
Furthermore, my gun has a safety valve. And I don't need a dangerous, home-made super-sonic gun to kill my lovely rats :-)

im interested in your safety valve i think thats a good idea but if not implemented properly can become a secondary trigger causing a unexpected discharge but if your gun is pointed in the right direction even a unexpected discharge isnt a problem not ideal but not dangerous

what makes a home made supersonic gun dangerous i mean they can be made dangerous but that statement was kinda generalized maybe i missed something in a post above not tryin to start an argument just want to understand

Boar


Offline username1

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 11:46:54 PM »
I only think that the stronger the gun and the ammunition, the fewer things can block its trajectory. The gun can harm something that you can't even see. Imagine that you and your strong gun is being in a wooden wall shed, you are testing your gun, and you can't see someone walking outside.

Offline BoyntonStu

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 06:26:16 AM »
While you are loading ammunition into your gun:
You know where your muzzle is pointing at.
You know what you are doing.
If someone steps in suddenly, you can move the muzzle fast away from him/ her (say your small child or even your wife :-)).
You can use a modified ram rod to increase the safety, keeping your hand away from the line of the bore (with muzzle-loaded gun. See the drawing).
You can point the muzzle down to the ground (with breech-loaded gun). While you are pumping, you can't rest the muzzle on the ground. If you point the muzzle up, your shed ceiling and roof... While in nature, where can you rest the gun on reliably?
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/username_016/SafetyMuzzleLoadingRamRod/SafetyRamRod.png
At last, I'm using a breech-loaded gun, which is safer :-). Furthermore, my gun has a safety valve. And I don't need a dangerous, home-made super-sonic gun to kill my lovely rats :-)


I have used a string to safely  pull the ram rod.

Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2010, 06:31:39 AM »
i generally loaded it first and then pumped it up until i accidentally pulled the trigger while pumping, fortunately i was pointing it up just in case. so now i load it after i pump it up.

I would try and make some kind of safety for your guns mouz even if it's just a pull pin like on a grenade...I did that for a while and it worked pretty well deff safer
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Offline mouz

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2010, 08:29:46 AM »
i now have a safety ( this don't mean you can point the gun at stuff you don't want to shoot) it is a simple safety, it just prevents the trigger from being pulled. if i i pulled the trigger while it was on, the trigger would break long before the safety, and that would NOT cause the gun to discharge. it is also easy to turn the safety of when you need to and you don't need to move your hand away from the firing position.

Offline Delmar

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2011, 07:20:29 AM »
yes it is super sonic capable. it is 52 caliber.
Excuse me for asking questions on an old thread, but for a .52 caliber gun to be super sonic with an air chamber that size at 110 psi, the dart must be very light, is that correct? Do you have any idea what kind of speeds you would reach with a patched round ball?

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2011, 07:58:53 AM »
Its not likely, the ammo would have to be light, making it extremely high in drag. It wouldnt stay supersonic much past leaving the barrel. A chronograph is an indispensable tool when determining the actual speeds an airgun is achieving. There is a program called GGDT, or gas gun design tool, that a lot of people use. It can give a general idea of performance, but it does not give real world numbers.

Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2011, 08:32:55 PM »
The word "supersonic" is a general misconception.. Is the sound barrier within reach of an airgun? well yes of course.. But the accuracy and actual weight of projectile will be lost.. And the pressure needed to atain such speeds is way more than most home builders can use.. That said when some one says they heard the "crack" of breaking the sound barrier they are most likely being mistaken with the sound that a large volume of air makes when it leaves a small diameter barrel.. This can be very loud sometimes.. As for your question: you should prolly start a new topic for this one and we can work from there to try and answer it
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 07:26:48 AM by Pellethuntr »
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Offline Delmar

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 04:39:50 AM »
The word "supersonic" is a general misconception.. Is the sound barrier within reach of an airgun? well yes of course.. But the accuracy and actual weight of projectile will be lost.. And the pressure needed to atain such speeds is way more than most home builders can use.. That said when some one says they heard the "crack" of breaking the sound barrier they are most likely being mistaken with the sound that a large colume of air makes when it leaves a small diameter barrel.. This can be very loud sometimes.. As for your question you should prolly start a new topic for this one and we can work from there to try and answer it
If I understand you correctly, if mouz used a patched round ball in this gun it is very unlikely that he would heard the sonic boom. This solved the riddle for me pretty well, I think.

Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2011, 07:33:15 AM »
You are correct, except that Mouz never hear the "sonic boom" to begin with, if Mouz had used a roundball that weighed say 3-4 times what his dart weighs he would have dramatically decreased his velocity.. But actually he would have more than likely heard a louder "boom".. This is because the heavier a projectile is, more force has to be exerted on it for it to clear the barrel.. So in reality, with high pressure air, you will always hear some sort of "boom".. as a general rule of thumb, the heavier your projectile is, the louder it will be regardless of velocity.. does that all make sense?? lol

Ok just to make this more clear.. lets take a .223 caliber rifle.. we shoot it and we hear a loud crack when the bullet exits the muzzle correct? A common misconception is that the loud noise we are hearing is the gun powder exploding.. In reality what we are hearing is the high pressure air pushing the bullet out the end of the muzzle at supersonic speeds.. now if we add a heavier bullet into this mix and shoot it out of the same gun the noise level will be louder.. not becuz we have more velocity (actually we have much less), but becuz it takes more force to clear a heavier bullet from the muzzle.. and it's the same concept if we take a .30-06 and compare it to the noise level of a .223.. it is much louder, but not because we have a higher velocity but because the bullet is much heavier and the barrel is much bigger in diameter.. There that should clear things up a bit
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 07:44:28 AM by Pellethuntr »
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Offline Delmar

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2011, 05:12:55 PM »


Ok just to make this more clear.. lets take a .223 caliber rifle.. we shoot it and we hear a loud crack when the bullet exits the muzzle correct? A common misconception is that the loud noise we are hearing is the gun powder exploding.. In reality what we are hearing is the high pressure air pushing the bullet out the end of the muzzle at supersonic speeds.. now if we add a heavier bullet into this mix and shoot it out of the same gun the noise level will be louder.. not becuz we have more velocity (actually we have much less), but becuz it takes more force to clear a heavier bullet from the muzzle.. and it's the same concept if we take a .30-06 and compare it to the noise level of a .223.. it is much louder, but not because we have a higher velocity but because the bullet is much heavier and the barrel is much bigger in diameter.. There that should clear things up a bit
So in my quest to build a quieter raccoon killing air rifle a lighter projectile might be advised.

Offline Pellethuntr

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2011, 08:31:50 PM »
You will have to find a happy middle ground of air pressure and bullet weight.. it's hard to say exactly what you will need without knowing what you are building exactly
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Offline mouz

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Re: ball valve power
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2011, 12:02:07 AM »
sorry guys, been away for a while. ok, the super sonic shots were made at 400 psi, with both extra light darts that weigh in at about 8 grams and wax bullets that weigh around 4 grams. the barrel is around 3 feet long, with a very high volume chamber to increase the "f-d curve" (borrowed from wooden bow design) in other words, the force applied to the projectile(bow string/air) should start off slowly and speed up, rather than the other way around, this is of course impossible with airguns(although it is possible a ball valve could do this to some extent) but you can come as close as possible. the reason for this is, if the bowstring starts to slow near the end of the shot it will cause undue friction and slow the projectile down. also, a steel .50 bearing in a patch goes about 600 feet per second at the same pressure, instead of my calculated 1,141 fps, although it remains far more deadly than a dart, because it seems to have the same penetration onto a block of oil clay at room temperature, about 3-5x denser than you(excluding bones), around 7 inches.
the average speed of sound around 1,125 fps, and i seem to remember my fingers freezing on those days, which would mean it could be a little bit easier to break. also, it makes a *very*different noise than on 300 psi, and with a heavier projectile the gas escape noise is greater, but it doesn't make that very distinguishable whip cracking sound(yes, i am extremely familiar with bull whips/using/cracking/what they sound like), i hope this answers everyone's questions. also, to go supersonic with 110 psi, i would imagine one would need a projectile weighing less than a gram, a massive chamber, and around 7 feet of barrel. although, this is a guess, not an educated one, if you really want to know, you can figure it out. or build it and see.